Thora Birch on The Chronology of Water, Eschewing Competitiveness and Playing Cult Characters

Words: Hannah Ewens | Photographer: Maya Fuhr | Hair and Makeup: Emma Croft for Exclusive Artists using Amika & Dior Beauty | Styling: Alexis Fyall | Production design: Steph MacDonald | Videographer: Amanda Elman | Photo assist: Tayla Grainger and Justin Wise

With a sharp black bob and thick rimmed glasses, Thora Birch became the face of 2000s outsider geek culture (see: Ghost World). She was the struggling teenager, accidental star of the show and its emotional centre (American Beauty). Who could forget her cute face as the brave kid sister who helps save the town of Salem (Hocus Pocus)? Through these cult movies you loved from your teens, Thora became someone you knew as savvy and rebellious – even if you didn’t know her at all. 

In person, she feels exactly that: she’s sharp, introspective and somewhat reserved. There’s a streak of tough humour – she laughs darkly, leaving you slightly unsure if you’re on the inside of the joke. Her eyes are everything to her acting and the way she communicates as herself too – deep blue lagoons of emotion that are constantly swirling, pulling everything in.

When speaking over a video call about her directing, being a cult actor and creative career advice, she’s not at home in LA but away on location for a new film in which she plays a nun. It’s a role she’s enjoying because it’s totally different from her recent character of Claudia in Kristen Stewart’s The Chronology of Water. 

Claudia is the equally traumatised older sister of Lidia Yuknavitch, the protagonist played by Imogen Poots. Both of them grew up in an abusive home – but as the viewer you’re left wondering how Claudia managed to survive in a different, perhaps more obvious way than Lidia. Water is the best way to describe Thora’s acting of Claudia: as much as the character tries to deny her pain, there’s a fluidity to it, and you can watch the currents working their way across her face, seeping out through her eyes. 

Full Look: Cos | Shoes: Alevi | Jewellery: Alexis Bittar | Glasses: Otra Eyewear 

I’m curious about the dynamic between Imogen Poots, you and Kristen Stewart in The Chronology of Water. It seemed special on screen – what was it like in reality on set? 

Thora: There's a lot of commonalities between the three of us. We all started very young and grew up in front of the cameras and have had different levels of fame at different parts of our lives. So on set, a lot of non-verbal communicating was taking place, which was fun, and unique. I did not get a lot of time with Imogen before filming, which is the opposite of what you would think, considering that we had to have this sisterly bond but I got there and I met her and I just looked right in her eyes and everything was instantly right there. It's one of those things where if you don’t have that, on the next [acting job], maybe it would be disappointing. But, a true gift to be able to work with these two ladies. And to see Kristen blossom as the director that she so clearly is, and enjoy that moment was great too because it’s so well deserved. 

Jacket: Cos | Shoes: Alevi @alevimilano | Glasses: Otra Eyewear

I wanted so much more of your character. You were this totally fully formed, interesting character happening alongside the lead – but we never ended up getting too much of you. 

Thora: Yeah. That was the fulfilling part of the challenge of Claudia: opening up myself to be in a place where I’m not answering all the questions that this character keeps bringing up. I’m not a fully realized character in the sense that I appear only in [Lidia’s] memory. Kristen was great at pushing me outside my comfort zone into doing even less. Because I consider myself somewhat on the subtle side of an actor. And this was ‘even your instinct to do that much is too much, do less than that’.

There was some discourse around Kristen’s directing style in Chronology being inherently female in form, and that being something to celebrate. How do you feel about that?

Thora: I’m glad that this movie is getting the attention that it is for that reason as an advertisement for hopefully what’s to come. As our industry becomes smaller and even more financially incestuous, it still opens up an opportunity for the independent space to thrive and people who have the resources and desire can, if they want to, just make a movie now. And that’s exciting. It’s also a little scary and daunting. It’s easy to complain about female filmmakers not having enough support. But also I’m seeing that maybe that’s not really the rule or the norm right now. There are opportunities out there. We’ve just got to keep pursuing them.

Dress: Yan Yan Knits | Shoes: Elizée

“I still have [Enid] in me. It’s obviously evolved and changed, and I don’t have a maniacal reaction to every little thing that happens in my life anymore, but [I do have] that ‘Really, this is the world we’re in right now? Come on man!’.”

Which character have you played that you feel is the most like you?

Thora: They were all me when I was doing them. I would have to say probably Enid [Ghost World] was the most me at that age – I was 18 in the year 2000 when we were filming, so that was definitely very, very Thora Birch.

I rewatched that film last night. It still holds up as a classic. It’s also the film that I first think about when I think about your acting career. Is it weird to be so associated with a cult character like that?

Thora: A little bit. But it’s also weird that that feeling doesn’t go away no matter how old you get. At least that’s what I’m finding. I still have [Enid] in me. It’s obviously evolved and changed, and I don’t have a maniacal reaction to every little thing that happens in my life anymore, but [I do have] that ‘Really, this is the world we’re in right now? Come on man!’. 

Are you grateful for those creative choices that you made when you were so young? You were the one who read the Ghost World script and had the eye for it being special as a kid.

Thora: Yeah. Well, you have to have that too. I think that’s part of the package. But I’m not going to scream about how awesome Alaska was…I had some clunkers in there just to learn from. 

“The actor me that wanted to be a director somehow thought the job was a little different than it is in actuality. I realise now that, you know, having worked on [her directorial debut] The Gabby Petito Story and developing the projects that are on my slate currently, it’s just way more political and less emotional than oddly I had thought.”

What was the best piece of acting advice that you've received?

Thora: Don’t give advice. No, I would have to take it back to my childhood which was, ‘Listen to the other person that you are conversing with when you are in the scene with them.’ It’s that simple. 

Yes, really active listening. I thought it was interesting that you had an acting break to study law. What made you take that detour?

Thora: Well, I was doing a deep life search. I was like, OK, maybe I don't have to just be in the entertainment industry for my whole life – it’s not an edict. And I wanted to learn about power in the world and how it’s harnessed and wielded. And I thought a lot of interesting things were going on in the real world at that time, and I was very intrigued by it all. I wanted to learn alongside it. And I thought that the law would be the most open-ended way to explore that, in the sense that it brings you into so many different facets of life. Everything is political. Everything is a matter of law or money and how those two things intertwine. It was all very fascinating to me. Then in pursuing that my curiosity was definitely satiated. And I realized that I just still really want to be a part of the storytelling process, the shaping of hearts and minds. 

I also can imagine if you’ve been working as an actor and in entertainment from such a young age, of course you’d want to push yourself in other ways.

Thora: Yeah. And that was the other part: I was breaking hearts and getting my heart broke. I was doing all the things that one needs to do to have a full life. 

Did the academic detour change your approach to any of your creative practices?

Thora: It has informed my approach and my understanding of directing, in a different way. The actor me that wanted to be a director somehow thought the job was a little different than it is in actuality. I realise now that, you know, having worked on [her directorial debut] The Gabby Petito Story and developing the projects that are on my slate currently, it’s just way more political and less emotional than oddly I had thought. That’s exciting, but it’s just different. The word ‘director’ is very misleading. You’re not controlling much of anything. 

Has directing made you want to write more of your own material to direct?

Thora: It’s actually pushed me away from the inclination that I had to write, especially coming out of getting my degree and all that process, which was just reading, writing, reading, writing, reading, writing. And I loved it – it got me thinking, maybe I was a writer because other people were saying like, ‘Oh, dude you’re a writer.’ But, no, because I’m not going to get up every day and do it for one hour a day no matter what. And I’m not plugged into that all the time [she points up to heaven]. For me the story is in the visual. It’s all the senses.

And when you’re acting do you feel connected to that [also points upwards]?

Thora: Yeah, that’s my sacred space.

Is that how you would have described it when you were younger or is that an understanding you came to later on? 

Thora: I think a little bit of it was always there. But it can grow and develop and strengthen, if you work it. And acting is also a highly social event, you’re dealing with other people. So you learn from them and their approaches – there’s a little bit of thievery going on, but it’s all in good fun and there’s nothing malicious about it.

When you act with other people, do you have a sense that you're all tapping into that something together, as well as each other?

Thora: Yeah, you can make it for a project. I feel like on American Beauty we were all in the same circuit. Everybody felt the same way about the script and the material and the people that we were working with. We were on an energy field. It was a vibe. All the cylinders were firing. And I think that the final vision was shared. So I think that can come about. I think also that’s special, it doesn't happen every time. Sometimes you can get together as a group and create a disaster. There’s fun in that too, because you learn. 

How do you stay sane when your creative career is something that has highs and lows, times when things are just popping off, and other times when nothing works. Have you built a philosophy around what it means to have a long career as a working artist?

Thora: Right. So one thing that was very helpful was just really throwing away all the competitive feelings. Feelings of comparison amongst actors, performers, and other women in my category. It’s really unnecessary. Not helpful at all. Just kind of toxic. And you see people like Amy Madigan or Jennifer Coolidge, they’ve been acting for 30, 40, 50 years, people know them but then it’s ‘this is my moment’. It’s never over when you’re down. You’re not losing half as hard as you think you are. And when you’re winning, you’re not doing half as good as you think you are. 

The real measure of to go on or not go on is: are you enjoying yourself? Are you learning? Are you participating? Are you helping other artists? Are you playing nice? It’s not going to become any less stressful, but if all those other things override the negative and the struggle then you’ve won. You have a career, you’re on your mission and you continue on on your merry way. It’s only when you give up and feel defeated, you are. Nobody else can say you’re over, you’re done. That’s not in their hands. It’s not.